Discusión:Trompeta de varas
Sono un utente italiano, e spero che scrivendo in italiano si capisca lo stesso. Sono anche l'autore della foto che è stata messa nella voce. Vorrei far notare che l'articolo si riferisce in buona parte al trombone soprano, che è uno strumento completamente diverso dalla tromba del XV secolo illustrata nella fotografia. Nell'articolo si parla di una tromba "moderna" (che è appunto il trombone soprano), mentre nella sezione "Historia" si parla della tromba del XV secolo, che non è un trombone, non ha la tessitura indicata nel template e non è certo uno strumento utile para que niños de muy temprana edad, puedan estudiar el mecanismo de la vara, de cara a tocar el trombón de varas en un futuro. Nella sezione "Historia" si dice anche che questo tipo di tromba sarebbe quello usato nelle cantate di Bach, ma a me non risulta. PS la mia pagina su it:wiki è qui --95.74.51.56 (discusión) 10:26 21 ago 2009 (UTC)
- Hi Guido. I don't understand completely your comment. I see in your user page that you speak English. Can you write it in English, please? I have made changes in the content of this article to try clarify all issues that you mentioned. If you think that it has more errors, please, notify me here. Thanks for your corrections and regards
;)-- Obelix83 (¡Están locos estos romanos!) 11:13 21 ago 2009 (UTC)- With the last edits, it seems to me that the fact that the article deals with two different instruments of the same name, and the differences between the two, are now clear enough. Maybe the first paragraph of the article could be more explicit in this sense. Yet I have some residual perplexity concerning the following statement: Esta era la trompeta utilizada por Johann Sebastian Bach en sus cantatas y tuvo una gran aceptación en Inglaterra. I wonder who can claim that. in fact, this cannot refer to the slide trumpet in the "old" sense (the one in the picture): this type of slide trumpet is a reconstruction (controversial for some time, but now generally accepted) based on XV century's paintings and on some indirect evidences (namely the fact that a natural trumpet could not play in a number of polyphonic compositions of the first half of the XV century, which contemporary sources claim were played by trumpets, while the trombone is first mentioned by Tinctoris only in the last decades of the XV century). No original instrument on this type survived. Had this been the trumpet used at Bach's time, we would definitely have much larger evidences of its existence. As far as I know (notice however that I am not a trumpet player) the modern performances of baroque music on "original instruments" use natural trumpets (sometimes with additional holes to modify the pitch of some notes, although such holes are modern inventions, I gather), not slide trumpets. I have no idea whether a soprano trombone could be used, but in that case the statement should refer to the instrument described in the subsequent section of the article. --Guido (discusión) 12:11 21 ago 2009 (UTC)
- I have extended the introduction to the article and hidden the information about Bach. I read this information in a doctoral thesis that used the book listed in Bibliography as source. I'll try to clarify this issue and if I can't do it, I'll delete this information. Thanks for your indications and regards -- Obelix83 (¡Están locos estos romanos!) 12:35 21 ago 2009 (UTC)
- With the last edits, it seems to me that the fact that the article deals with two different instruments of the same name, and the differences between the two, are now clear enough. Maybe the first paragraph of the article could be more explicit in this sense. Yet I have some residual perplexity concerning the following statement: Esta era la trompeta utilizada por Johann Sebastian Bach en sus cantatas y tuvo una gran aceptación en Inglaterra. I wonder who can claim that. in fact, this cannot refer to the slide trumpet in the "old" sense (the one in the picture): this type of slide trumpet is a reconstruction (controversial for some time, but now generally accepted) based on XV century's paintings and on some indirect evidences (namely the fact that a natural trumpet could not play in a number of polyphonic compositions of the first half of the XV century, which contemporary sources claim were played by trumpets, while the trombone is first mentioned by Tinctoris only in the last decades of the XV century). No original instrument on this type survived. Had this been the trumpet used at Bach's time, we would definitely have much larger evidences of its existence. As far as I know (notice however that I am not a trumpet player) the modern performances of baroque music on "original instruments" use natural trumpets (sometimes with additional holes to modify the pitch of some notes, although such holes are modern inventions, I gather), not slide trumpets. I have no idea whether a soprano trombone could be used, but in that case the statement should refer to the instrument described in the subsequent section of the article. --Guido (discusión) 12:11 21 ago 2009 (UTC)