Anexo discusión:Universidades más antiguas

== Debe retirarse la UNAM de este listado == Necesidad de indicar entidad contemporánea en las universidades hispánicas En 1865, el emperador Maximiliano consideró reformar la Real y Pontificia Universidad de México, pero finalmente se decidió por clausurarla de manera definitiva, dando fin a un proceso y disputa de varias décadas. El 22 de septiembre de 1910, siendo presidente Porfirio Díaz, se inauguró la Universidad Nacional de México dando cumplimiento al decreto del 16 de mayo de aquel año que formalizaba su Ley Constitutiva. Entre 1865 y 1910 hay sus buenos años de distancia, y la UNAM, por lo menos para sus fundadores, no se consideró asimisma como heredera de la RPUM. La mayor parte del claustro de la Universidad se considera continuador de la RPUM. No entiendo porqué no se expresa que la corona de Castilla es la fundadora de la Universidad bajo el epígrafe entidad contemporánea. En París se pone Reino de Francia. En su lugar poneis SI. Esto se da en la de Lima (S. Marcos), Cebú y casi todas las creadas por la corona castellana en todo el mundo. Es un hecho. Quien quiera hacer opinión eliminando los hechos no debería acercarse a Wikipedia.

Se incluyen universidades que ya no existen en el listado

Estudios Generales de Palencia (primera Universidad de España) Si bien ya hubo una escuela en el siglo XI alrededor de la Catedral de Palencia, no adquirió destacado esplendor a finales del s. XII. Aunque no se han encontrado textos de la época, otros escritos posteriores ya hablan de que los Estudios Generales de Palencia (Studium Generale), primera Universidad de la historia de España, ya estaban activos a finales del s.XII. Según estos escritos, en los Estudios Generales palentinos estudió Santo Domingo de Guzmán, por el año 1184. Y se han conservado varias lecciones impartidas en Palencia hacia el 1196 por el maestro Ugolino de Sesso. Entre 1222 y 1227 también fue alumno Gonzalo de Berceo. Alfonso VIII de Castilla y el obispo Tello Téllez dieron un espaldarazo definitivo a los Estudios Generales entre los años 1208 (reconocimiento oficial eclesiástico) y 1212 (reconocimiento oficial del rey Alfonso VIII). El fomento cultural de este rey seguramente procedió en buena parte de su esposa Doña Leonor, hija de Enrique II de Inglaterra y Leonor de Aquitania, y hermana de Ricardo Corazón de León. El obispo Tello Téllez también solicitó la aprobación pontificia, que el Papa Honorio III concedió en 1221. De esta manera, los Estudios Generales de Palencia se convertían también en unos de los primeros de Europa, después de los implantados en Bolonia, París, Oxford y Monpellier. En Palencia se estudiaba el Trivium (Gramática, Retórica y Lógica) y el Quadrivium (Aritmética, Geometría, Astronomía y Música)y los alumnos que aprobaban los dos ciclos salían con el título de licenciados en Teología y Artes. Palencia destacó también por sus estudios jurídicos complementarios. Aparte de las lecciones de Ugolino de Sesso, también impartieron clases los maestros teólogos Odo de Chéritón, master por París, Lanfranco, arzobispo de Canterbury (1070-1089), el maestro Fornelino y Pedro Lombardo. La lástima es que, con el declive de la Diócesis palentina y la muerte de su mentor Alfonso VIII de Castilla, aunque los Estudios Generales de Palencia estuvieron activos hasta la década de los 60 del S.XIII, sus profesores se fueron distribuyendo entre los Estudios Generales de Salamanca (fundados en 1218) y por el embrión de los que sería la Universidad de Valladolid

Se debería incluir la Universidad de Baeza, de la que os recuerdo:

La Universidad de Baeza fue una universidad del antiguo Reino de Jaén (España) fundada en la ciudad de Baeza por bula del papa Pablo III en 1538. Fue una de las cuatro universidades fundadas en Andalucía en el siglo XVI (junto a Sevilla, Granada y Osuna) en el marco de la plétora de fundaciones universitarias que se produjo en aquella época en toda España, quedando encuadrada en el grupo que suele denominarse de «universidades menores», frente a las «universidades mayores» de Salamanca, Alcalá y Valladolid.1 Funcionó durante más de tres siglos, hasta su supresión en 1824.

Tanto el edificio de la primitiva fundación universitaria como el de su implantación definitiva forman parte del conjunto monumental renacentista de Baeza, que junto con el de Úbeda, fue declarado Patrimonio de la Humanidad por la Unesco en 2003.2

Veo errores graves en este listado, pues se considera como universidades aun existentes, o "que perviven en la actualidad", a algunas que en realidad fueron extinguidas hace más de cien años. Y me limito a mencionar los casos de la primera y la tercera: puede haber sido firmado un "protocolo de recreación", pero la antigua Universidad de Salerno -extinguida en 1811, según se dice ahí mismo- no tiene nada que ver con la nueva, fundada en 1968, por más importantes y voluntaristas que hayan sido esas personalidades "nacionales, regionales y universitarias" firmantes; del mismo modo, la antigua Universidad de París (la Sorbona histórica) fue extinguida por los revolucionarios franceses en 1789, Napoleón reabrió la institución en 1808 bajo el nombre de «Universidad Imperial» o «Universidad de Francia», la misma que fue definitivamente cerrada en 1882, habiendose fundado la nueva universidad en 1890. En el mejor de los casos, las actuales trece universidades de París (producto de las reformas de 1970) pueden remontar su historia hasta la de Napoleón, y punto. Desde hace más de un siglo, la "Sorbona" es sólo un término coloquial para referirse a toda la Universidad de París, nada más (debido a eso ya ni siquiera la incluyen en la [List_of_oldest_universities_in_continuous_operation], como tampoco a la de Salerno). En el Anexo:Universidades y colegios en América Latina anteriores a 1810 se solucionó un problema parecido -debido a la controversia por la primera y la más antigua universidad del Nuevo Mundo- realizando dos listados: el de «Universidades fundadas» y el de «Universidades en funcionamiento continuo desde su fundación». (Miguel Angel del Castillo M., 29-VI-2011)

Se ha quitado de la lista la Universidad de Palencia, ya que el artículo se refiere a las universidades más antiguas que aun siguen en funcionamiento. Si bien últimamente hay quien considera que la universidad de Valladolid sería el resultado del traslado a dicha ciudad del Estudio General de Palencia, no es ni mucho menos una teoría común mente aceptada por los expertos.

Confusión de madrazas con universidades

Omar-Toons es un usuario que intenta incluir madrazas islamicás desde haces meses en varias versiones de esta lista, ignorando deliberadamente una serie de discusiones (por ejemplo Al Karaouine: Pro, contra and undue weight y Universities) en la que era consenso que la madraza, o escuela religiosa islámica, era una institución que tiene nada que ver con la universidad cristiana que tiene una historia propia y distinta. Esto es también reconocido en la Wikipedia española, donde, como en todas otras Wikipedias, las dos instituciones tienen cada una un artículo propio, es decir son aceptados por Wikipedia como sujetos distintos que no tienen que mezclarse en una lista conjunta, pero merecen listas distintos. Esto es la lista sobre las universidades más antiguas. Batán Azul (discusión) 00:26 30 may 2012 (UTC)

La protección de la página no seria necesario, si uno de los protagonistas de la guerra, Usuario:Omar-Toons, participará en esta discusión. Es decir, si puede hablar español... Batán Azul (discusión) 07:56 31 may 2012 (UTC)

Y si como solución salomónica pasamos a llamar el artículo algo así como "Instituciones académicas por antigüedad"? --Irbian (discusión) 14:39 5 jun 2012 (UTC)

Hola. Para otras instituciones de enseñanza avanzada ahora hay un artículo separado: Antiguas instituciones de altos estudios. Si Omar-Toons quiere, podría crear también una lista de Madrazas más antiguas. Pero este anexo está reservado para las universidades propias, si tenia sentido alguno. Batán Azul (discusión) 14:50 12 jun 2012 (UTC)

En esta versión se encuentra una selección de fuentes de especialistas de la historia de la universidad sobre el origen europea indiscutible de esta institución. Se trata de las anotaciones 1-3. Batán Azul (discusión) 07:28 6 jul 2012 (UTC)

La Universidad de Oxford reconoce las Madrazas de Túnez, Fez y El Cairo como universidades, ¿usted se cree quizá con mayor prestigio o peso universitario que esa institución? Jesús María Ponce Martín (discusión) 17:23 9 oct 2022 (UTC)

Guerra de ediciones

Este artículo está siendo objeto de una guerra de ediciones que no tiene salida. Por ello, he revertido hasta antes de su comienzo y he solicitado su protección hasta que los editores se pongan de acuerdo civilizadamente. Sonsaz (Discusión) 15:15 19 jun 2012 (UTC)

Universidad de Murcia

Me gustaría añadir la Universidad de Murcia, una de las más antiguas del mundo, fundada en 1272.

La Universidad de Murcia se fundó en 1915, según informan en la página oficial sobre la historia de dicha Universidad. ​ No se debe confundir con otras instituciones docentes históricas de esa zona. Un cordial saludo: --Raimundo Pastor (discusión) 20:22 8 may 2014 (UTC)

Universidad Nacional Mayor de San Marcos

Quisiera poner a la universidad peruana UNMSM fundada el 12 de mayo de 1551 pero no se puede editar la página. — El comentario anterior sin firmar es obra de Andremuse (disc. • contribs • bloq). Sonsaz (Discusión) 09:39 25 jun 2012 (UTC)

 Hecho. Muchas gracias por su aportación. Sonsaz (Discusión) 09:39 25 jun 2012 (UTC)

Fuentes

Hola. Abajo una colleción de fuentes fiables que demonstran que la universidad era una institución únicamente europea hasta la edad moderna. Algunos de ellos querria incluir en el artículo. Los presento de antemano para discutirlos si hay diferentes opiniones sobra la disputada inclusion actual de la madraza de Qarawiyyin. Invito Usuario:Omar-Toons para participar en la discusión y presentar sus argumentos aquí. Batán Azul (discusión) 23:50 28 ago 2012 (UTC)

Fuentes reputables y definiciones de enciclopedias, diccionarios sobre la edad medieval y expertos internacionales de la historia de la universidad

The medieval Christian origin of the university

Walter Rüegg

The university is a European institution; indeed, it is the European institution par excellence. There are various reasons for this assertion. As a community of teachers and taught, accorded certain rights, such as administrative autonomy and the determination and realization of curricula (courses of study) and of the objectives of research as well as the award of publicly recognized degrees, it is a creation of medieval Europe, which was the Europe of papal Christianity...

No other European institution has spread over the entire world in the way in which the traditional form of the European university has done. The degrees awarded by European universities – the bachelor's degree, the licentiate, the master's degree, and the doctorate – have been adopted in the most diverse societies throughout the world. The four medieval faculties of artes – variously called philosophy, letters, arts, arts and sciences, and humanities –, law, medicine, and theology have survived and have been supplemented by numerous disciplines, particularly the social sciences and technological studies, but they remain none the less at the heart of universities throughout the world.

Even the name of the universitas, which in the Middle Ages was applied to corporate bodies of the most diverse sorts and was accordingly applied to the corporate organization of teachers and students, has in the course of centuries been given a more particular focus: the university, as a universitas litterarum, has since the eighteenth century been the intellectual institution which cultivates and transmits the entire corpus of methodically studied intellectual disciplines. (Rüegg, Walter: "Foreword. The University as a European Institution", in: Ridder-Symoens, Hilde de (ed.): A History of the University in Europe. Vol. I: Universities in the Middle Ages, Cambridge University Press, 1992, ISBN 0-521-36105-2, pp. XIX–XX)

Jacques Verger

No one today would dispute the fact that universities, in the sense in which the term is now generally understood, were a creation of the Middle Ages, appearing for the first time between the twelfth and thirteenth centuries. It is no doubt true that other civilizations, prior to, or wholly alien to, the medieval West, such as the Roman Empire, Byzantium, Islam, or China, were familiar with forms of higher education which a number of historians, for the sake of convenience, have sometimes described as universities.Yet a closer look makes it plain that the institutional reality was altogether different and, no matter what has been said on the subject, there is no real link such as would justify us in associating them with medieval universities in the West. Until there is definite proof to the contrary, these latter must be regarded as the sole source of the model which gradually spread through the whole of Europe and then to the whole world. We are therefore concerned with what is indisputably an original institution, which can only be defined in terms of a historical analysis of its emergence and its mode of operation in concrete circumstances. (Verger, Jacques: "Patterns", in: Ridder-Symoens, Hilde de (ed.): A History of the University in Europe. Vol. I: Universities in the Middle Ages, Cambridge University Press, 2003, ISBN 978-0-521-54113-8, pp. 35–76 (35))

The Heritage of European Universities

In many respects, if there is any institution that Europe can most justifiably claim as one of its inventions, it is the university. As proof thereof and without wishing here to recount the whole history of the birth of universities, it will suffice to describe briefly how the invention of universities took the form of a polycentric process of specifically European origin. (Sanz, Nuria; Bergan, Sjur (eds.): The Heritage of European Universities, Council of Europe, 2002, ISBN 978-92-871-4960-2, p. 119)

Encyclopedia of the Middle Ages

The university came into being in the 12th century. On a general level, it was certainly a manifestation of the great transformations that characterised European society during the centuries following the year 1000. The debate begins when we seek to fix its origin more precisely: was the university an evolution of the 11th- and 12th-c. cathedral schools or, on the contrary, of lay municipal schools (of grammar, notariate, law)? Did it have antecedents in the higher legal schools of late Roman Antiquity? Does it show analogies with the teaching institutions of the Islamic world? In reality, the university was an original creation of the central centuries of the Middle Ages, both from the point of view of its organisation and from the cultural point of view, notwithstanding what it owed, in the latter aspect, to the cathedral schools (especially for philosophy and theology). (Vauchez, André; Dobson, Richard Barrie; Lapidge, Michael (eds.): Encyclopedia of the Middle Ages, Vol. 1, Routledge, 2000, ISBN 978-1-57958-282-1, p. 1484 (entry "university"))

The first universities

Ferruolo, Stephen C.

Given how the university came to be defined, the decisive step in its development came when masters and scholars of various subjects and with diverse professional objectives first joined together to form a single guild or community. It was in Paris that the earliest such corporation was formed. Although in other respects the city's schools developed more slowly than those of Bologna, Paris can, in this definitive sense, be regarded as the location of the first university. (Ferruolo, Stephen C.: The Origins of the University: The Schools of Paris and Their Critics, 1100–1215, Stanford University Press, 1985, ISBN 978-0-8047-1266-8, p. 5)

Encyclopædia Britannica

The modern university evolved from the medieval schools known as studia generalia; they were generally recognized places of study open to students from all parts of Europe. The earliest studia arose out of efforts to educate clerks and monks beyond the level of the cathedral and monastic schools...The earliest Western institution that can be called a university was a famous medical school that arose at Salerno, Italy, in the 9th century and drew students from all over Europe. It remained merely a medical school, however. The first true university was founded at Bologna late in the 11th century. It became a widely respected school of canon and civil law. The first university to arise in northern Europe was the University of Paris, founded between 1150 and 1170. (Encyclopædia Britannica: "University", 2012, retrieved 26 July 2012)

Catholic Encyclopedia

Although the name university is sometimes given to the celebrated schools of Athens and Alexandria, it is generally held that the universities first arose in the Middle Ages. (Pace, Edward: "Universities", The Catholic Encyclopedia, Vol. 15, Robert Appleton Company, New York, 1912, retrieved 27 July 2012)

Brill's New Pauly

The first universities appeared around 1200. They traced their own origins to ancient roots. Paris, for instance, in the 13th cent. portrayed itself as founded by Charlemagne and hence as the final station of a translatio studii founded in Athens and transmitted via Rome...In reality, the mediaeval universities as institutions enjoyed no form of continuity with the public academies of Late Antiquity...The early universities as institutions were not clearly legally defined, and had no consistent, comprehensive bureaucratic structure. They emerged from collective confraternities at a place of study. Teachers and students would join together in corporate groups (universitas magistrorum et scholarium, as at Paris before 1200, and at Oxford and Montpellier before 1220) or, indeed, students alone (universitas scholarium, as at Bologna before 1200). Sometimes universities resulted from secessions from these first foundations (as at Cambridge from the University of Oxford before 1220, at Padua from the University of Bologna in 1222). Retrospectively at least, however, the foundation and its legal privileges (protection, autonomy, financial basis, universal licence to teach – licentia ubique docendi) had to be confirmed by a universal power, either by the pope or, more rarely, the emperor. Only then did an institution attain the true status of a studium generale. (Brill's New Pauly: "University", Brill, 2012)

Definitions of the Islamic madrasa

Encyclopaedia of Islam

Madrasa, in modern usage, the name of an institution of learning where the Islamic sciences are taught, i.e. a college for higher studies, as opposed to an elementary school of traditional type (kuttab); in mediaeval usage, essentially a college of law in which the other Islamic sciences, including literary and philosophical ones, were ancillary subjects only. (Pedersen, J.; Rahman, Munibur; Hillenbrand, R.: "Madrasa", in Encyclopaedia of Islam, 2nd edition, Brill, 2010)

The Encyclopaedia of Islam has an entry on the "madrasa", in which the mosque schools of Al-Karaouine and Al-Azhar are discussed, but notably lacks one for a Muslim "university" (cf. Pedersen, J.; Rahman, Munibur; Hillenbrand, R.: "Madrasa", in Encyclopaedia of Islam, 2nd edition, Brill, 2010)

Medieval Islamic Civilization: An Encyclopedia

A madrasa is a college of Islamic law. The madrasa was an educational institution in which Islamic law (fiqh) was taught according to one or more Sunni rites: Maliki, Shafi'i, Hanafi, or Hanbali. It was supported by an endowment or charitable trust (waqf) that provided for at least one chair for one professor of law, income for other faculty or staff, scholarships for students, and funds for the maintenance of the building. Madrasas contained lodgings for the professor and some of his students. Subjects other than law were frequently taught in madrasas, and even Sufi seances were held in them, but there could be no madrasa without law as technically the major subject. (Meri, Josef W. (ed.): Medieval Islamic Civilization: An Encyclopedia, Vol. 1, A–K, Routledge, ISBN 978-0-415-96691-7, p. 457 (entry "madrasa"))

The difference(s) between the university and the madrasa

George Makdisi

In studying an institution which is foreign and remote in point of time, as is the case of the medieval madrasa, one runs the double risk of attributing to it characteristics borrowed from one's own institutions and one's own times. Thus gratuitous transfers may be made from one culture to the other, and the time factor may be ignored or dismissed as being without significance. One cannot therefore be too careful in attempting a comparative study of these two institutions: the madrasa and the university. But in spite of the pitfalls inherent in such a study, albeit sketchy, the results which may be obtained are well worth the risks involved. In any case, one cannot avoid making comparisons when certain unwarranted statements have already been made and seem to be currently accepted without question. The most unwarranted of these statements is the one which makes of the "madrasa" a "university". (Makdisi, George: "Madrasa and University in the Middle Ages", Studia Islamica, No. 32 (1970), pp. 255–264 (255f.))

In the following remarks, it will be seen that the madrasa and the university were the result of two different sets of social, political and religious factors. When speaking of these two institutions, unless otherwise stated, my remarks will refer, for the most part, to the eleventh century in Bagdad and the thirteenth century in Paris. These are the centuries given for the development of these institutions in the Muslim East and the Christian West, respectively.

Universitas, the term which eventually came to be used synonymously with studium generale, and to designate what we now know as the university, originally meant nothing more than a community, guild or corporation. It was a corporation of masters, or students, or both...The madrasa, unlike the university, was a building, not a community. It was one among many such institutions in the same city, each independent of the other, each with its own endowment.

In the West the scholars of the University were ecclesiastics, people of the Church...Now, whereas the popes were the ultimate guardians of orthodoxy in the Christian hierarchy, in Islam which lacked a religious hierarchy, it was the ulama, or religious scholars, themselves, who ultimately had to see to the preservation and propagation of orthodox truth.

Centralization in medieval European cities, and decentralization in those of medieval Islam–such was the situation in the institutions of learning on both sides of the Mediterranean. Paris was a city with one university; Bagdad, on the other hand, had a great number of institutions of learning. In Paris organized faculties were brought into a single system resting on a hierarchical basis; in Bagdad, one leading scholar (and others of subordinate positions) taught in one of the many institutions, each institution independent of the other, with its own charter, and its own endowment. Here we have another essential difference between the two institutional systems: hierarchical and organized in medieval Europe, individualistic and personalized in medieval Islam.

Perhaps the most fundamental difference between the two systems is embodied in their systems of certification; namely, in medieval Europe, the licentia docendi, or license to teach; in medieval Islam, the ijaza, or authorization. In Europe, the license to teach was a license to teach a certain field of knowledge. It was conferred by the licensed masters acting as a corporation, with the consent of a Church authority, in Paris, by the Chancellor of the Cathedral Chapter...Certification in the Muslim East remained a personal matter between the master and the student. The master conferred it on an individual for a particular work, or works.

Before the advent of the licentia docendi, the conditions for teaching were much the same in medieval Europe and in the Muslim world...But Europe developed the license to teach, and with its development came the parting of the ways between East and West in institutionalized higher education...The license to teach in medieval Europe brought with it fixed curricula, fixed periods of study and examinations. Whereas the ijaza in Islam kept things on a more fluid, a more individualistic and personal basis.

There is another fundamental reason why the university, as it developed in Europe, did not develop in the Muslim East. This reason is to be found in the very nature of the corporation. Corporations, as a form of social organization, had already developed in Europe. Their legal basis was to be found in Roman Law which recognized juristic persons. Islamic law, on the other hand, does not recognize juristic persons. (Makdisi, George: "Madrasa and University in the Middle Ages", Studia Islamica, No. 32 (1970), pp. 256–264)

Thus the university, as a form of social organization, was peculiar to medieval Europe. Later, it was exported to all parts of the world, including the Muslim East; and it has remained with us down to the present day. But back in the Middle Ages, outside of Europe, there was nothing anything quite like it anywhere. (Makdisi, George: "Madrasa and University in the Middle Ages", Studia Islamica, No. 32 (1970), pp. 255–264 (264))

Madrasas had no institutional structure, no curriculum, no regular examination and no system of degrees

Berkey, Jonathan P.

Over the course of the Islamic Middle Period (1000–1500), these madrasas became typical features of the urban landscapes of Near Eastern and central and southwest Asian cities, and their proliferation was one of the seminal features of medieval Islamic religious life. Even so, the institutions themselves seem to have had little or no impact on the character or the processes of the transmission of knowledge. For all that the transmission of knowledge might take place within an institution labeled a madrasa, and be supported by the endowments attached to that institution, the principles that guided the activities of teachers and students, and the standards by which they were judged, remained personal and informal, as they had been in earlier centuries before the appearance of the madrasa. No medieval madrasa had anything approaching a set curriculum, and no system of degrees was ever established. Indeed, medieval Muslims themselves seem to have been remarkably uninterested in where an individual studied. The only thing that mattered was with whom one had studied, a qualification certified not by an institutional degree but by a personal license (ijaza) issued by a teacher to his pupil. Whether lessons took place in a new madrasa, or in an older mosque, or for that matter in someone's living room, was a matter of supreme indifference. No institutional structure, no curriculum, no regular examinations, nothing approaching a formal hierachy of degrees: the system of transmitting knowledge, such as it was, remained throughout the medieval period fundamentally personal and informal, and consequently, in many ways, flexible and inclusive. (Berkey, Jonathan P.: Madrasas Medieval and Modern: Politics, Education, and the Problem of Muslim Identity, in Hefner, Robert W.; Qasim Zaman, Muhammad (eds.): Schooling Islam: The Culture and Politics of Modern Muslim Education, Princeton Studies in Muslim Politics, Princeton University Press, 2007, ISBN 978-0-691-12933-4, p. 43)

Al-Karaouine (and Al-Azhar) were not the first madrasas, therefore they cannot have been the first universities, even if a madrasa is considered a university.

Medieval Islamic Civilization: An Encyclopedia

The first madrasas appeared during the late tenth century in the eastern Islamic world. By the early eleventh century, there were several in Nishapur. The Seljuk vizier Nizam al-Mulk (1064–1092) greatly promoted their spread. He founded the renowned Nizamiyya Madrasa in Bagdad in 1065 for the Shafi'is and proceeded to establish similar colleges in other cities of the Seljuk Empire. His primary objective was to use this institution to strengthen Sunnism against Shi'ism and to gain influence over the religious class. Madrasas rapidly spread from east to west. (Meri, Josef W. (ed.): Medieval Islamic Civilization: An Encyclopedia, Vol. 1, A–K, Routledge, ISBN 978-0-415-96691-7, p. 457 (entry "madrasa"))

Berkey, Jonathan P.

Before the emergence of the madrasa as a distinctive educational forum in the eleventh century, the transmission of Muslim knowledge was not tied to any institutional structure. Most education probably took place in mosques, as students gathered with respected scholars in informal teaching circles to recite texts and discuss the issues which they addressed...Beginning in the eleventh century, Muslims began to establish institutions specifically created and endowed to support the transmission of religious knowledge, and over the ensuing centuries the madrasa and its cognate institutions became one of the most common features of premodern cities...A madrasa established in Bagdad in the late eleventh century by Nizam al-Mulk, the Persian vizier to the Saljuq sultans, is often today mentioned as the archetypal madrasa, although in fact the institution probably developed earlier in Khurasan in eastern Iran. (Berkey, Jonathan P.: Madrasas Medieval and Modern: Politics, Education, and the Problem of Muslim Identity, in Hefner, Robert W.; Qasim Zaman, Muhammad (eds.): Schooling Islam: The Culture and Politics of Modern Muslim Education, Princeton Studies in Muslim Politics, Princeton University Press, 2007, ISBN 978-0-691-12933-4, p. 42f.)

Al-Azhar cannot be considered the oldest university in the world and there is not even institutional continuity between medieval and modern madrasas (hence Al-Azhar cannot even be regarded as a continuously operating institution)

One recent development in the Islamic world which has caught the eye of Western reporters is the increasing prominence of institutions of religious education, usually known as madrasas...It is not clear that these madrasas represent a uniform type. The word madrasa in Arabic simply means "school," and can be applied to a wide variety of institutions. The madrasas at issue here are schools...Not infrequently, these institutions are caricatured as "medieval." And indeed, the madrasa was one of the central institutions of religious life in much of the medieval Islamic world. Strictly speaking, there is no question of any direct institutional continuity between any of the contemporary madrasas and those which figured so prominently in medieval life. The great al-Azhar mosque in Cairo is sometimes spoken of as the oldest university in the world; unfortunately, for all its sentimental appeal, the assertion has little historical meaning. (Berkey, Jonathan P.: Madrasas Medieval and Modern: Politics, Education, and the Problem of Muslim Identity, in Hefner, Robert W.; Qasim Zaman, Muhammad (eds.): Schooling Islam: The Culture and Politics of Modern Muslim Education, Princeton Studies in Muslim Politics, Princeton University Press, 2007, ISBN 978-0-691-12933-4, p. 40)

Fuentes fiables que demonstran que Universidad de Qarawiyyin e Al-Azhar eran madrasas y no universidades

These sources are reliable, albeit not expert sources, which show that Al-Karaouine and Al-Azhar were actually founded and run as a madrasa, not a university.

Al-Karaouine (and Al-Azhar) was founded or run as a madrasa, mosque school or mosque, not a university.

Petersen, Andrew: Dictionary of Islamic Architecture, Routledge, 1996, ISBN 978-0-415-06084-4, p. 87 (entry "Fez"):

The Qarawiyyin Mosque, founded in 859, is the most famous mosque of Morocco and attracted continuous investment by Muslim rulers.

Lulat, Y. G.-M.: A History Of African Higher Education From Antiquity To The Present: A Critical Synthesis Studies in Higher Education, Greenwood Publishing Group, 2005, ISBN 978-0-313-32061-3, p. 70:

As for the nature of its curriculum, it was typical of other major madrasahs such as al-Azhar and al-Qarawiyyin, though many of the texts used at the institution came from Muslim Spain...Al-Qarawiyyin began its life as a small mosque constructed in 859 C.E. by means of an endowment bequeathed by a wealthy woman of much piety, Fatima bint Muhammed al-Fahri.

Meri, Josef W. (ed.): Medieval Islamic Civilization: An Encyclopedia, Vol. 1, A–K, Routledge, ISBN 978-0-415-96691-7, p. 257 (entry "Fez"):

Fez then became the Almoravids' main military base in Morocco. It is also in this period that the Qarawiyyin mosque began to acquire increasing significance as a center of learning. Many of the 'ulama' representatives of Western Malikism were trained in this center.

Al-Karaouine was transformed only in modern times into a university.

Shillington, Kevin: Encyclopedia of African History, Vol. 2, Fitzroy Dearborn, 2005, ISBN 978-1-57958-245-6, p. 1025:

Higher education has always been an integral part of Morocco, going back to the ninth century when the Karaouine Mosque was established. The mosque school, known today as Al Qayrawaniyan University, became part of the state university system in 1947.

Al-Karaouine is the oldest madrasah in the world, not the oldest university.

Fergusson, James: Taliban: The Unknown Enemy, Da Capo Press, 2011, ISBN 978-0-306-82033-5, p. 69:

The oldest madrasah in the world, the Jami'at al-Qarawiyyin in Fez, Morocco, has been operating benignly – and continuously – since it was established in 859;

Belhachmi, Zakia: "Gender, Education, and Feminist Knowledge in al-Maghrib (North Africa) – 1950–70", Journal of Middle Eastern and North African Intellectual and Cultural Studies, Vol. 2–3, 2003, pp. 55–82 (65):

The Adjustments of Original Institutions of the Higher Learning: the Madrasah. Significantly, the institutional adjustments of the madrasahs affected both the structure and the content of these institutions. In terms of structure, the adjustments were twofold: the reorganization of the available original madaris, and the creation of new institutions. This resulted in two different types of Islamic teaching institutions in al-Maghrib. The first type was derived from the fusion of old madaris with new universities. For example, Morocco transformed Al-Qarawiyin (859 A.D.) into a university under the supervision of the ministry of education in 1963.

Batán Azul (discusión) 23:50 28 ago 2012 (UTC)

Universidad de Oviedo

Creo que falta la universidad de Oviedo, fundada en 1574. Si es que me equivoco por favor notifíquenmelo, pero en la propia Wikipedia aparece este como año de fundación. Gracias de antemano.

¿Podemos agregar la Academia de Ostroh?

¿Podemos agregar la Academia de Ostroh? ¿Se aplica esto sólo a aquellas instituciones de educación superior que tenían el estatus de "universidad" en el momento de su creación? Bodia1406 (discusión) 22:32 14 sep 2023 (UTC)