Discusión:Tokumei Sentai Go-Busters

Buddyloid/Buddyroid/Buddy Roid

Aunque la versión actual del artículo es técnicamente correcta, ya que incluye las tres nomenclaturas, relega a un segundo plano a la nomenclatura oficial, como puede verse en esta captura de pantalla de la serie, y a la nomenclatura ampliamente más popular, en favor de la nomenclatura utilizada en merchandising licenciado aunque producido por terceros. Así que... ¿qué aporta esta revisión frente a esta otra, para que el usuario User:Ryulong la revierta y pida la protección del artículo? 77.209.76.223 (discusión) 22:39 24 jun 2015 (UTC)

Quiero añadir que acabo de comprobar el mismo artículo en las demás wikis en las que está disponible y el mismo usuario ha realizado durante la última semana ediciones arbitrarias similares en las de idioma francés, indonesio, polaco y portugués. Contactaría con él sobre su comportamiento pero en su página de discusión pide que le contacten en la wiki inglesa, donde está bloqueado :/ si no contesta durante las próximas semana restauraré la edición con la nomenclatura oficial 77.209.76.223 (discusión) 23:08 24 jun 2015 (UTC)

(Lo siento, usando inglés) My block at the English Wikipedia has nothing to do with this page. "Buddyroid" is not official. "Buddyloid" is. "Buddy Roid" was only used once on the TV. "Buddyloid" was used here until this.--Ryulong (discusión) 23:25 24 jun 2015 (UTC)

Buddyloid, Buddyloid, Buddyloid. Buddy Roid. Never "Buddyroid" except by fans.--Ryulong (discusión) 23:30 24 jun 2015 (UTC)

Salgo de mi retiro para opinar sobre este asunto. Cuando introduje el término, lo hice simplemente por traducción de la lengua inglesa, y no entré a valorar la oficialidad o no de dicho término. En primer lugar, hay que tener en cuenta que ni "Buddyloids" ni "Buddy Roids" ni "Buddyroids" son versiones correctas de la palabra. La palabra correcta es "バディロイド", que en Hepburn se transcribe como "Badiroido". Generalmente, "Badiroido" sería la transcripción que debería aparecer por norma de la Wikipedia en español. Sin embargo, el asunto no es tan simple, ya que, como es muy común en la franquicia "Super Sentai" en la que se mezcla el japonés y el inglés continuamente, nos encontramos ante un calco del inglés que ha pasado por la transliteración al japonés y que después se vuelve a llevar al inglés deformado. Es claro que la intención de los creadores de la serie era juntar las palabras "Buddy" ("Compañero, colega") y "Android" ("Androide") en una sola palabra, "Buddy-roid", que por la deformación de la pronunciación japonesa que no permite consonsantes a final de palabra añade una "o" al final, quedando como "Badiroido". Desde este punto de vista, la palabra más correcta sería "Buddyroid" o "Buddy Roid". Sin embargo, hay que ceñirse a los hechos, y es que en la serie la única transcripción que aparece claramente en pantalla es "Buddy Roid". A la hora de valorar las fuentes y las referencias, no basta con medir su frecuencia. También es necesario clasificarlas jerárquicamente respecto a validez e importancia, y en mi opinión lo que aparezca en la serie tiene preferencia sobre el merchandising de cualquier tipo, por la sencilla razón de que los autores de la serie son los creadores del nombre y tienen más relevancia que un juguete o una web que están hechos por terceros. De esta forma, una sola aparición en la serie tiene mucha mayor relevancia que doscientas apariciones en fuentes secundarias. Por tanto, considero que como lo único que aparece en la serie es "Buddy Roid", debe ser "Buddy Roid" la forma en que figure en el artículo.--Manbemel (discusión) 12:31 25 jun 2015 (UTC)

I get out of my retirement to talk about this matter. When I inserted the term "Buddyloid", I did it only because I translated it from the English Wikipedia, and I didn't enter in the officiality of the word. Firstly, we must take into account that nor "Buddyloids" neither "Buddy Roids" or "Buddyroids" are right versions of the word. The right word is "バディロイド", which in Hepburn can be transcribed as "Badiroido". Generally, "Badiroido" should be the transcription that shoud appear following the Manual of Style of Spanish Wikipedia. However, this is not that simple, since, as it is really common in the "Super Sentai" franchise where Japanese and English is continuously mixed, this is a word taken from English, transcribed to Japanese, and then transcribed back to English in a distorted form. It is clear that the intention of the creators of the show was to mix the words "Buddy" and "Android" in a single word, "Buddy-roid", which because of the distortion introduced by Japanese pronunciation that doesn't allow consonants at the end of words, it has been added a final "o", reading as "Badiroido". From this point of view, the most correct word would be "Buddyroid" or "Buddy Roid". However, we must face the fact, and it is that the only transcription that appears on screen is "Buddy Roid". When we check sources and references, frequency is not the only thing to take into account. It is also necessary to classify them according to their validity and importance, and in my opinion, what appears on the series has preference over merchandising made by third parties, just because the series' authors are the creators of the name and are more relevant than a toy or a web made by third parties. This way, a single appearance on the series is more relevant than 200 appearances on these kind of sources. Because of this, I consider that since the only thing that appears on the series is "Buddy Roid", it is "Buddy Roid" which should appear on the article.--Manbemel (discusión) 12:31 25 jun 2015 (UTC)

"Buddy Roid" only appeared once in all of the TV show. "Buddyloid" appeared multiple times in Bandai merchandise, which is not a third party. Bandai owns the trademark with Toei. Therefore, Toei only used "Buddy Roid" once and every time after that told others to use "Buddyloid", as its Bandai and Columbia Records using "Buddyloid". Frequency is more important than "this showed up first in the TV show".—Ryūlóng (琉竜) 13:59 25 jun 2015 (UTC)

The point is that this article is about the TV show and only about the TV show, and merchandising is not the TV show. Terms that appear on toys, movies, music albums and any other merchandising are irrelevant if they do not appear directly on the TV show, and if something appears on both sources and the sources do not match, which is the case, the TV show has preference. The term "Buddyloid" should appear, but only as a footnote saying that it's merchandising where they use that name.--Manbemel (discusión) 15:14 25 jun 2015 (UTC)

El punto es que este artículo es sobre la serie de televisión y solo sobre la serie de televisión, y el merchandising no es la serie de televisión. Los términos que aparecen en juguetes, películas, álbumes musicales y cualquier otro merchandising son irrelevantes, porque no aparecen directamente en la serie de televisión, y si algo aparece en ambas fuentes y estas no coinciden, lo que es el caso, la serie de televisión tiene la preferencia. El término "Buddyloid" debe aparecer, pero solo como nota al pie diciendo que es el merchandising donde usan ese nombre.--Manbemel (discusión) 15:14 25 jun 2015 (UTC)

The merchandising shows what the spellings are. It's all owned by the same company. And it was only one time in the show in the background. Why does that prove anything?—Ryūlóng (琉竜) 21:59 25 jun 2015 (UTC)

Please, do not change back the article to the form with L. You have already been explained why it should be with "R", and you have no consensus to use the "L" form. If you change the article back to "L", I'm very sorry but I'll have to call the administrators for edit warring. And I wouldn't like doing that.--Manbemel (discusión) 09:45 26 jun 2015 (UTC)

It's just you and me arguing over it. That's not a consensus in your favor. You even originally wrote it as "Buddyloid".—Ryūlóng (琉竜) 04:59 28 jun 2015 (UTC)

It's you, me and at least two ip users whose opinion also counts and who are at this moment unable to participate because the article is blocked to anonymous users right now. That makes 3 against 1, so it's clear where the consensus is. You are the only one defending "Buddyloid". As for what I wrote before, as I said first, I simply translated the article from English Wikipedia, and that doesn't mean I support that word.--Manbemel (discusión) 13:08 28 jun 2015 (UTC)

This discussion page isn't protected and those IP users are all probably the same person. "Buddyloid" is the correct translation as is obvious from it appearing on everything else. There was only one scene where "Buddy Roid" was seen in the TV program and then it's never seen again but everything else officially licensed by Toei has "BUDDYLOID" on it.—Ryūlóng (琉竜) 20:22 28 jun 2015 (UTC)

You're right it's not protected (my mistake), but that doesn't change the fact that the ip users tried to introduce the "R" form several times before you reverted them back to "L", it's on the history of the article and anyone can see it, so the consensus is still on the form with "R". And I forgot to count the ip user who introduced the change to "R" back in january and whose opinion also counts. That would make 4 against 1. And I tell you again. One single scene of the show is more valuable than 200 appearances elsewhere, because this article is about the TV show. It's not about the franchise. It's not about the toys. It's only about the TV show. Therefore, it's mandatory that the article discusses only what can be seen on the TV show, and "Buddyloid" does not appear on the TV show. Remember also that all the times that the word is used, it is used in sections discussing the plot and characters, therefore it doesn't make sense to use words that are not explicitly used on the plot of the TV show. Unless you can find a scene from the TV show where the characters names are spelled as "Buddyloid", the only thing which would prove your point, the article must stay as it is, with the "R" form.--Manbemel (discusión) 21:44 28 jun 2015 (UTC)

P.S. Asuming good faith is also mandatory in Spanish Wikipedia. You have no proof to say that all the ips are the same person, and without that proof, their opinions have the same value than yours or mine. We are no better or have any more rights than any anonymous user just because we are registered. That's a rule of Wikipedia.--Manbemel (discusión) 21:49 28 jun 2015 (UTC)

Besides, even if all the ips were the same person, which I doubt (only 2 ips were on the same ip range, and I already counted them as 1), it would still be 2 (the user and me) against 1 in favour of the form with "R".--Manbemel (discusión) 21:55 28 jun 2015 (UTC)