Discusión:Hadewijch de Amberes

Incorrect dates of death and place of death

In this article about the medieval Dutch mystic writer Hadewijch, two specific years of death are mentioned. In the article 1248, and in the infobox 1260. Both years are incorrect.

The truth is, that we absolutely don't know in what year Hadewijch was born and in what year she died. We don't have a vita about her life, we don't have records in a medieval archive or family tree that has been preserved. Nothing.

We only know the date of 1 text she wrote pretty precise: there is one text ('De lijst der volmaakten') she wrote in the years 1240-1243.

All other dates (you can find all over the internet) are guesses, estimations, or (worse) errors - and can be 20, 30 years away from the historial fact. So also the two contradicting years in this article, can both be decades off.

I would suggest to remove these two precise years and change is to:

Hadewijch, a 13th century mystic, (...).

or:

She was born most likely in the 13th century and died in the 13th or 14th century.

(2). Also of the places where she was born, lived, and died, we have no historical records at all. So the first paragraph (under 'Datos biográficos') is just the estimanation of 1 (Italian) author.

You only can state that she most probably lived in the Duchy of Brabant (because of the dialect of her manuscripts, and because of the Lord of Breda she mentions once). Nivelle (as place of death) is just one person's guess and not known in Dutch historical research.

Even 'Antwerp' is totally uncertain, because this was just mentioned two hundred years later for the first time - so it's just a later addition.

I would suggest to remove that first paragraph (under 'Datos biográficos') and replace it with the introduction paragraph and the first paragraph under 'Life' from the English wikipedia - that is the correct current state of our knowledge.

Please compare your article with the English or Dutch articles, who mention the (lack of) historial facts about her life right.

If you need an online source, you can use for example:

G.J. van Bork & P.J. Verkruijsse (red.), De Nederlandse en Vlaamse auteurs van middeleeuwen tot heden met inbegrip van de Friese auteurs (1985):

Hadewijch

Or the most well-known book about her life and writings (not online):

Paul Mommaers, Hadewijch: Schrijfster, Begijn, Mystica (1989).

(Note: wikidata also had incorrect dates, which are removed in early april).

With kind regards from the Netherlands, sorry I don't speak any Spanish, atentamente y gracias, Rozemarijn vL (discusión) 13:01 8 abr 2024 (UTC)